<benjamin_52n> ok, lets start
<benjamin_52n> did you guys have a look at the trello board?
|<-- eike_52n has left freenode (Quit: Verlassend)<br /> <jiwalker> I am just catching up on it now
<isuftin-CIDA> I have not.
<isuftin-CIDA> Walker, the board is @
<isuftin-CIDA> https://trello.com/b/BNLdKv1U/new-wps-features
<benjamin_52n> there are a few things on the board, but i am not sure what needs to be done to be able to start working on a task
<isuftin-CIDA> I've looked at So last time I mentioned user stories on a card that are then broken down to a list of tasks, each assigned to a card
<isuftin-CIDA> It looks like a few tasks are in the To Do
<isuftin-CIDA> When ready to work on a task, assign totheproper person, that person moves the card over to doing
<benjamin_52n> right
<jiwalker> I like the idea of more context on this board, a way of tying the tasks together
<benjamin_52n> that sounds reaonable
<isuftin-CIDA> Right
<isuftin-CIDA> I don't see user stories
<isuftin-CIDA> So for instance, https://trello.com/c/F54tUkRe is a large task. That task should be connected to a user story card and then broken down into sub-tasks that it's also referencing
<jiwalker> I'm not sure Kanban is necessarily the best way to handle this though
<jiwalker> I kinda like the Job Queuing lane and having tasks related to it under there
<jiwalker> it depends on how the development is being done and being tracked
<benjamin_52n> right, thats another question...
<isuftin-CIDA> I am under the impression of a pool of developers that will choose from these tasks (kanban).
<jiwalker> kanban is mor the to-do, doing, done with only so much allowed in each idea
<isuftin-CIDA> yes
<jiwalker> and that might make sense, I'm not sure
<benjamin_52n> we could also work with one list for each task and then use labels to mark the state (doing, done)
<isuftin-CIDA> You'll end up with a large, colorful list
<isuftin-CIDA> I think a list for doing and done is a nice separation
-->| <jiwalker_> (<jiwalker>@ has joined #52north
<jiwalker_> sorry, got disconnected
<benjamin_52n> should be fine, its just that with my proposal you can direcitly identify which sub tasks belong to which super tasks, if you know what i mean
<isuftin-CIDA> What's the last message you saw, Walker?
<jiwalker_> big colorful list
<isuftin-CIDA> The only other thing I said was " <isuftin-CIDA> I think a list for doing and done is a nice separation"
<benjamin_52n> i guess i am fine with kanban
<isuftin-CIDA> <benjamin_52n>: Your ideais pretty cool, actually
<benjamin_52n> the issue is breaking up the tasks
<jiwalker_> then labels can refer to proposal
<isuftin-CIDA> I havent thought of it that way
<isuftin-CIDA> As long as you archive tasks regularly (on completionor end of iteration orend of release), the main board shouldn't get too wide and unruly
<benjamin_52n> yeah, i concur, it should better not get too wide
<benjamin_52n> still, the lists could get long (and colorful :))
<benjamin_52n> but we could give it a try
<jiwalker_> yeah, if there are 3-4 "themes" going on at a time it could be manageable
<isuftin-CIDA> If there are a lot of tasks to a user story, sure. However, that's a good sign that the story should get broken down further and have branches of sutasks that are broken into small tasks. The subtasks can then take up a lane
<benjamin_52n> right
<jiwalker_> yeah, I'm thinking there can be multiple user stories per "theme" that get at different parts of the larger task
<jiwalker_> so job queuing as an example might have a story about system resource, one about ogc spec compliance, one about UI
<isuftin-CIDA> right
<jiwalker_> I just notice using trello, sometimes it is hard to keep track of which cards relate to other ones
<benjamin_52n> let me add an example to the board quickly
<isuftin-CIDA> <jiwalker_>: agreed. Especially if there's no link inside a card to another card. It's "tribal knowledge"that you need to have context of the application in to figure out
<jiwalker_> I think having a lane which is related by the "bigger goal" might help with that
<benjamin_52n> i added an example to the board
<jiwalker_> the way we often do it, is to have the story in the backlog that describes the whole feature and then break it up when we get around to implementing it
<jiwalker_> but I don't think that fits with this board
<isuftin-CIDA> benjamin: I think that may work
<benjamin_52n> so, we could also use different boards per tasks...
<isuftin-CIDA> You mean one trello board per taskk?
|<-- <jiwalker> has left freenode (Quit: Lost terminal)<br /> <jiwalker_> that's the other <jiwalker> btw
<isuftin-CIDA> the client that was having issues?
<benjamin_52n> yeah, might help keeping it readable
<jiwalker_> I wouldn't worry too much about having long columns, the bigger issue would be too many columns
<jiwalker_> but I think multiple boards might make it hard to manage the bigger picture
<benjamin_52n> true
<isuftin-CIDA> Agreed
<jiwalker_> switching between boards and any interdependencies that come up
<benjamin_52n> thats what the interdependency board is used for
<benjamin_52n> but seriously, i think we will need to try this out for one of the big tasks
<jiwalker_> yeah, I think trying it out and seeing what works and what doesn't is really the only way to come to a conclusion here
<isuftin-CIDA> Yeah the workflow comes pretty naturally as people learn to use the trello board
<benjamin_52n> ok, i could make a start trying to break down the job queuing task
<jiwalker_> and I think the user stories are important
<jiwalker_> they get to the "why" of the task and add important context
<benjamin_52n> right, so define user stories and those can than be broken down, as in the example
<benjamin_52n> ok, so i think that concludes the trello discussion for now
<jiwalker_> I'm thinking more of another card that reads something like "As a WPS server operator I want to queue jobs that would exceed the resources of my system so that users are not adversely affected"
<jiwalker_> or something
<jiwalker_> but yeah, we can move on
<benjamin_52n> so, that card will be listed under Job Queuing or under anothe list User Stories?
<jiwalker_> I think under Job Queuing and apply a User Stories label
<benjamin_52n> right
<benjamin_52n> i think we are on the same line now
<benjamin_52n> another thing is that the OSGeo Live DVD 7.9 is going to be released soon (feature freeze is in about thre weeks)
<benjamin_52n> the question would be whether we make a WPS 3.3.0 release very soon to be shipped with the DVD
<isuftin-CIDA> When does the release need to be done by?
<benjamin_52n> i think it would be good to have it done in two weeks from now
<benjamin_52n> the codebase looks good, i guess
<isuftin-CIDA> How does that impact timelines on your end? What was the original release date?
<benjamin_52n> i think it fits with the original release date
<benjamin_52n> we were thinking about end of January, i guess
<isuftin-CIDA> I think if it fits within your timelines that works
<jiwalker_> yeah, seems good
<benjamin_52n> good, so i do not have anything else
<isuftin-CIDA> Alright
<benjamin_52n> feel free to look at the google doc with name proposals
<benjamin_52n> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApiyoEH9Fnd3dEJKXzM3LURkMmNlRlhUR1JpaDE1Z1E
<isuftin-CIDA> Thanks I will do that.I havent thought of a name yet though
<benjamin_52n> ok, great. thanks for the discussion and have a nice day, guys.
Topic revision: r1 - 06 Jan 2014, BenjaminPross
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