Dec-02-2013-WPS-IRC-Meeting

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[16:58] * Topic is '52°North Discussion Group | Geospatial Open Source Software, geo-hacking, lunch planning. | About this channel: http://wiki.52north.org/bin/view/Documentation/IRC'
[16:58] * Set by daniel_52n!~Daniel@193.175.4.220 on Mon Nov 18 18:06:46 CET 2013
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[17:02] <eike_52n> have a nice meeting ;-)
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[17:02] <benjamin_52n> thx
[17:02] <matthes_52n> hey guys
[17:03] <matthes_52n> wagon
[17:03] <bot_52n> matthes_52n, you have missed the lunchwagon. Better luck next time!
[17:03] <matthes_52n> damnit
[17:03] <benjamin_52n> hey guys, i don't know about TUD, so lets start
[17:04] <ISuftin-CIDA> Hi Jordan
[17:04] <benjamin_52n> so, i've created a trello org and board: https://trello.com/b/BNLdKv1U/new-wps-features
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[17:04] <ISuftin-CIDA> Looks like the board might be private
[17:05] <matthes_52n> its private. one sec
[17:05] <benjamin_52n> ok, now it should be public
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[17:05] <ISuftin-CIDA> I can see it
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[17:07] <matthes_52n> maybe a VPN issue jiwalker1? had similar issues from the university vpn once
[17:07] <benjamin_52n> Ivan, can you join the organization? https://trello.com/52northwpsproject
[17:07] <ISuftin-CIDA> Sure one moment
[17:07] <ISuftin-CIDA> Jordan is having connectivity issues (obviously). I am logging the chat for him but I'm unsure if he will be able to participate much.
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[17:08] <benjamin_52n> Ivan, ok, should be fine
[17:08] <benjamin_52n> so the trello board is obviously very basic...
[17:09] <daniel_52n> last time we ended with the idea that we have to be clear for what the trello is used and for what we use GitHub issues
[17:10] <ISuftin-CIDA> benjamin, you might need to add me to the board instead of the other way around. We can deal with that later.
[17:10] <daniel_52n> this is a question of the level of detail.
[17:10] <benjamin_52n> Ivan, ok
[17:11] <benjamin_52n> Ivan, you seem to have two accounts :)
[17:11] <ISuftin-CIDA> ahh.. isuftin@gmail.com :D
[17:12] <ISuftin-CIDA> daniel, the way we do it for our projects is trello is used for epics, user stories and tasking that comes out of the user stories. Github issues are for the implementation of that tasking
[17:12] <ISuftin-CIDA> Trello at a higher level than Github
[17:12] <daniel_52n> I like that.
[17:12] <benjamin_52n> +1
[17:13] <daniel_52n> we just discussed using issues only for "bugs", but then we're doing work without having a GitHub issue, which I do not like.
[17:13] <daniel_52n> so you should only work on something if there is a related issue
[17:14] <ISuftin-CIDA> We also have a review column on trello between doing and done where the stake holder for the issue can check off on there, otherwise raising a discussion in the card and it's moved back to doing
[17:14] <daniel_52n> interesting, have not tried that but sounds reasonable.
[17:15] <ISuftin-CIDA> It's a formality, but it helps to solidify that a task was done as promised and avoids oing back to it later when the product owner decides that wasn't done to spec
[17:15] <ISuftin-CIDA> may or may not be overkill for this. Unsure
[17:16] <daniel_52n> it implies a process that we're not really eager to define completely... or that we don't have specified yet, so I'd suggest to keep the "Review" column in mind if we have issues with feature acceptance.
[17:16] <daniel_52n> I like the "card aging" power-up - are you using that?
[17:17] <ISuftin-CIDA> No, we're not. Taking a look at that.
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[17:18] <ISuftin-CIDA> Is there the ability to set that at the card level? (So some cards visibly age, others dont?) The reason I ask is because we have epic and user story cards that will sit there until all tasks for it are complete and a lot of the time that's until the end of the sprint (a few months).
[17:19] <daniel_52n> right. no, not as far as I know.
[17:19] <ISuftin-CIDA> I'll take a look into it, but that's a pretty cool idea.
[17:20] <daniel_52n> so the epics would age pretty much... or you just have to move it up and down in a list to "unage" it :-)
[17:20] <daniel_52n> it's easy to disable, let's see.
[17:21] <daniel_52n> so just to recap: trello for epics and task management (assigning people) - GH issues for implementation tasks and bugs.
[17:21] <daniel_52n> so if I get assigned a story on trello, I create n - many issues to implement it.
[17:21] <ISuftin-CIDA> Will you have bugs also working their way back up to trello or will those stay at the GH level?
[17:22] <daniel_52n> mhm... depends on the severity? or the size?
[17:22] <ISuftin-CIDA> For instance, if a bug occurs, will that bug be appended to the tasking card that the bug occurs in and that card gets back to doing?
[17:23] <daniel_52n> ok, so I was thinking about bugs for "old" features.
[17:23] <ISuftin-CIDA> Ah!
[17:23] <ISuftin-CIDA> Those would probably stay at the GH level, I imagine
[17:24] <daniel_52n> Did someone already use GH issues and Trello in parallel? How can they be "linked" apart from permalinks to issues or cards?
[17:24] <ISuftin-CIDA> https://zapier.com/zapbook/github/trello/
[17:24] <ISuftin-CIDA> (I've not used that, so do not endorse it)
[17:24] <ISuftin-CIDA> http://www.mirosvrtan.me/blog/2012/10/github-and-trello-integration/
[17:26] <daniel_52n> so zapier seems nice and polished.
[17:27] <daniel_52n> but of course it's not completely free ...
[17:27] <ISuftin-CIDA> Right. That's the only drawback ;)
[17:27] <daniel_52n> the service hook seems like a good one way interaction - I look at the Trello board and see what is going on.
[17:28] <daniel_52n> since we don't want to mix implementation tasks and stories/epics, I think we can start with manually linking the issues related to a story?
[17:29] <ISuftin-CIDA> Sure. On trello, usually the first comment on a tasking card is which story it's linked to. On the story card, we link back to the epic card
[17:30] <ISuftin-CIDA> On the story card, we link to which task cards came out ofit
[17:30] <ISuftin-CIDA> once a taskcard is done, we put a strikethrough on the link on the story card
[17:30] <ISuftin-CIDA> And the same thing for epic <-> story cards
[17:30] <daniel_52n> ok. and epics/stories are tagged?
[17:30] <ISuftin-CIDA> Yes
[17:31] <ISuftin-CIDA> The cards that are related appear in a checklist on the dependent card
[17:31] <ISuftin-CIDA> A story will have a checklist with multiple child cards for tasks
[17:32] <ISuftin-CIDA> And epics will have multiple story card checkklists
[17:32] <daniel_52n> wow - I have never even used child cards :-)
[17:32] <ISuftin-CIDA> Well, they're only child cards as a checklist
[17:32] <daniel_52n> ok. and you manually link to the cards in the checklist?
[17:32] <ISuftin-CIDA> Yep
[17:33] <ISuftin-CIDA> using a hashtag will create a link toa card
[17:33] <ISuftin-CIDA> "#616" links to card 616
[17:34] <daniel_52n> ISuftin-CIDA: would you say we should start with a "Trello only" solution first?
[17:35] <daniel_52n> in my first suggestion I would say a "task card" is a GitHub issue.
[17:37] <ISuftin-CIDA> I would say that for developing stories that have not been released to production yet, go with trello. Once there's a release of a story, use Github issues so the user community can comment on it. Once it's release, archive the story and associated cards.
[17:38] <daniel_52n> what do you mean with "release of a story" - a pull request that implements the feature in a story?
[17:38] <ISuftin-CIDA> For transparency, if you wish, invite the community to see but not add to Trello so they can see the progress of what's going on in development
[17:38] <daniel_52n> yes, I would suggest to do that.
[17:38] <ISuftin-CIDA> daniel_52n: I mean once the user story is in the main code base and that code base is cut as a release for general use
[17:39] <ISuftin-CIDA> At that point you can consider that story 'done'
[17:39] <daniel_52n> so whatever I do in my own branch I document in trello.
[17:40] <ISuftin-CIDA> Yep
[17:40] <daniel_52n> is the 52North/WPS repo or the /master branch the "main code base" ?
[17:40] <ISuftin-CIDA> Wherever you have Jenkins making release versions from
[17:41] <ISuftin-CIDA> https://github.com/52North/WPS is what I would consider to be your de facto main code base
[17:42] <daniel_52n> ok. and that is also where we will get "classic" bug reports for - and those can be GitHub issues then.
[17:42] <ISuftin-CIDA> Exactly.
[17:42] <daniel_52n> and we don't have issue mgmt on all our forks :-)
[17:42] <ISuftin-CIDA> That would be a maintenance nightmare, I would think
[17:43] <daniel_52n> exactly.
[17:43] <daniel_52n> ok.
[17:44] <daniel_52n> so I would see two next steps: 1. get all people on the trello board 2. fill the board
[17:44] <ISuftin-CIDA> Agreed.
[17:44] <daniel_52n> and 0. write down what we just discussed on a wiki page.
[17:44] <daniel_52n> or just copy and paste the chatlog for starters until somebody asks for documentation...
[17:45] <ISuftin-CIDA> I'm logging the chat so let me know if you'd like transcripts
[17:45] <benjamin_52n> I will take care of that
[17:45] <benjamin_52n> we have a logbot :)
[17:45] <ISuftin-CIDA> As a side note, for the project I'm on now, our columns are: Backlog, Current Iteration, To Do, Doing, Review, Done
[17:46] <benjamin_52n> i put the logs in our wiki: https://wiki.52north.org/bin/view/Geoprocessing/StructuresAndProcedures
[17:47] <ISuftin-CIDA> Ah! Excellent
[17:47] <daniel_52n> :-)
[17:48] <daniel_52n> ok, so Benjamin will invite all community members to submit their trello accounts and we can say that we work on the board until next week, filling the Backlog column
[17:48] <daniel_52n> this can be based on last weeks chat log
[17:49] <daniel_52n> and then, next week, we discuss (vote?) the items in the backlog next week and can see what tags (like "has funding") we need to manage this.
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[17:50] <ISuftin-CIDA> That sounds good. Are you also planning on scoring your stories?
[17:51] <daniel_52n> I'd say we could discuss that next week ;-)
[17:51] <ISuftin-CIDA> Cool.
[17:52] <daniel_52n> do you have a preferred scoring method?
[17:52] <daniel_52n> maybe we send out some links so that people can prepare a bit what scoring is and how it works...
[17:53] <ISuftin-CIDA> We use fibbonaci numbers but have alsoused shirt sizes
[17:53] <daniel_52n> shirt sizes sounds cool.
[17:54] <daniel_52n> why not just start with that?
[17:54] <ISuftin-CIDA> Go for it. Everyone can relate to shirt sizes :)
[17:55] <benjamin_52n> ok guys, I am very happy with these outcomes :)
[17:56] <benjamin_52n> I have one more thing
[17:56] <benjamin_52n> so at 52n we were thinking about a new name for the WPS for quite some time now
[17:58] <benjamin_52n> we want to move away from the name 52°North WPS a bit, because on the one hand we think its more than just a WPS
[17:58] <benjamin_52n> its more a processing framework of some kind...
[17:59] <benjamin_52n> ISuftin-CIDA, do you have an opinion about that, or do you maybe even want to join our search for a new name? :)
[18:00] <ISuftin-CIDA> I will join the search! I'll ask Jordan what he thinks. I have no opinion at the moment, though I agree it has extendedbeyon just being a regular WPS implementation
[18:00] <benjamin_52n> great!
[18:00] <ISuftin-CIDA> *extended beyond
[18:01] <benjamin_52n> we have a google doc with some name proposals, I will share this with you
[18:01] <ISuftin-CIDA> Sounds good.
[18:03] <benjamin_52n> cool, so I think we will call it a day here in Germany :)
[18:03] <benjamin_52n> have a good one and talk to you in one week
[18:03] <ISuftin-CIDA> Great. Thanks for the discussion.
[18:03] <ISuftin-CIDA> Ah wait a moment.
[18:03] <ISuftin-CIDA> So, next week Jordan Walker and I will be at an event in San Fransisco so will not be able to attend.
[18:04] <benjamin_52n> ah, ok
[18:05] <benjamin_52n> no problem, lets see who will be attending next Monday, maybe we will skip or have an internal meeting
[18:05] <ISuftin-CIDA> Sounds good.
[18:06] <benjamin_52n> alright, see you, thanks for the discussion!
[18:06] <ISuftin-CIDA> Thanks! See ya.
[18:06] <daniel_52n> yes - thanks!
[18:06] <daniel_52n> bye!
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[18:06] <benjamin_52n> bye